Forum
FM17 Overview of Bottom Divisions and Coaching Badge Statistics (WIP) - Printable Version

+- Forum (http://www.lowerleaguemanager.com/forum)
+-- Forum: Football Manager (http://www.lowerleaguemanager.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=1)
+--- Forum: General Discussion (http://www.lowerleaguemanager.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=18)
+--- Thread: FM17 Overview of Bottom Divisions and Coaching Badge Statistics (WIP) (/showthread.php?tid=979)

Pages: 1 2


FM17 Overview of Bottom Divisions and Coaching Badge Statistics (WIP) - SackedLlaMa - 06-11-2016

QUICK OVERVIEW OF THIS THREAD: 

Spreadsheets and project posts:
Complete overview of number of different coaching badges in all playable bottom divisions in FM17:
Spreadsheet: FM17 Overview of Bottom Divisions and Coaching Badge Statistics
Thread post: #1 (this one, just further down)

The possibility of landing a job in any bottom division in FM17 without a coaching badge or previous experience:
Spreadsheet: FM17: Job Hunting with no Coaching License
Thread post: Part 1 (2.5 star rep only) & Part 2 (a variety of division reputations)

Research into what coaching badges and experience the game itself recommends you start with and what influences this recommendation:
Spreadsheet: FM17: Recommended License and Experience in Bottom Divisions
Thread posts:
#12: What influences the game recommendations? 
#20: Does your nationality influence game recommendations?

–––––––––––––––––––

FM17 Complete Overview of Coaching Licenses in the Bottom Divisions 

Ever thought to yourself, 'I wish there was an overview of every bottom division in FM17 with a bit of info on each and statistics on coaching badges in each division'? Of course you haven't because you're sane. But now there is one anyway. 

What is this? - Part 1
In this overview every single playable bottom division in FM17 is listed along with the following information on each; 
- Tier (i.e. National League North/South is the 6th tier in England, 2nd division is the 3rd tier in Norway etc.)
- Rank; where the league is currently ranked in the League Reputation table
- Rep; Reputation listed in number of stars in the League Reputation table (i.e. Welsh Premier League is 1, Erste Liga in Austria is 2.5)
- Status; Here I've tried to list the status of the majority of clubs in that division, from amateur to professional. In cases where it's about 50-50, I've used the lowest status to reflect the worst of the worst (where I constantly seem to end up...). I.e. in Danish 2nd Division there are many semi-professional clubs, but since about half the league consists of amateur clubs, I've listed Amateur as status. Note: This category is the least 'facts' because it doesn't reflect every single status of every single club in the league. 
- # just means the number of clubs on this level. In leagues consisting of multiple groups (i.e. National League North and South or the 6 2nd division groups in Sweden) I've added them all up and given a total number. I.e. there are 10 clubs in the single Scottish third division but 80 clubs spread across 4 groups in Spain's Segunda B.

What is this? - Part 2
The rest of the table is data on coaching licenses currently held by existing managers at the lowest playable level in every country in FM17. Yes, I clicked on every single manager at every single club in any bottom division in FM17 (and yes, there were times I wished I hadn't started doing this...)

The first two categories are: 
- UN (for Unavailable) = means number of clubs where EITHER the club is UNplayable (i.e. reserve or '2' team) OR the info was UNavailable (i.e. some clubs have a Director/Manager where there's no info on any coaching license. Yes, there is a difference between no info available and the person not having a coaching badge as the latter is listed as 'None').
- W/o man. (Without manager) = means that the club currently has no manager. This does not include teams that have a Director/Manager and the likes.

Then follows 3 main Categories – 'Native', 'Foreign (from same continent)' and 'Foreign (from different continent)'. 
- 'Native' means the manager is from the same country he is currently managing in, i.e. an Englishman managing in England. 
- 'Foreign (from same continent)' means the manager is of a different nationality then the club he is managing, but his country of origin is on the same continent as his current club, i.e. an Englishman managing in Spain. 
- 'Foreign (from different continent)' same as above, only he is from a different continent, i.e. an Englishman managing in Australia

Note: 
1. I wanted to see a difference between managers born in UK & Ireland managing in UK & Ireland and other Europeans coaching in UK & Ireland, so I call anyone from UK & Ireland 'Native' if they currently manage in the UK or in Ireland. Hopefully I'm not offending anyone from UK & Ireland, but I hope you understand why I wanted to separate the two without creating yet another main category... I did the same with Chinese managers managing in Hong Kong and I lumped everyone from USA and Canada together under 'Native'.
2. In cases of dual-citizenship, where one is the country he's currently managing in, I've listed him under 'Native'. This is because I want to separate managers who have lived in a country for years (long enough to get dual-citizenship) and then get a managing job and people who move to a country because they've been offered a job.
3. The reason I divided the foreign managers into two separate categories is because I wanted to see the difference (or if there was a difference) between say an Argentinian and a European managing in South America or separate Europeans from other Asians managing in China. It's one thing to move to a neighboring country and quite a different thing to move to a new continent. 

Then each of these 3 main categories have 8 subcategories which lists the number of managers with a certain coaching license. It shouldn't be too hard to understand; 
'None' means the manager currently holds no coaching license; 
Nat means National (C is the lowest, A is the highest)
Ct means Continental (C is the lowest, Pro is the highest)
(The 8 categories are listed in ascending order from 'None' to Continental Pro, from left to right)

Also note that there are three sheets; one for the 'Americas', one for 'Asia/S.Africa' (because it looked stupid to have a whole sheet just for 1 division) and 'Europe'. The reason S.Africa and USA/Mexico are separated from the rest of the nations on their sheet is because they're not on the same League Reputation table so listing them together would be inaccurate. 

What is it for? 
Anything you want really. If you can use it for anything, awesome. If not, it's probably just for me, but I thought I'd share it anyway just in case anyone wants it. What will I use it for?

When starting a new career it might help me decide on what leagues I want to include. I.e. if I want to start in Germany, either with a club or maybe especially if I want to start unemployed, it might be a good idea to include other leagues of a similar reputation or rank (I haven't tested it yet, but I think it's difficult to get a job in a 2 star rep league if you've also loaded a 1 or 0.5 star rep league). Or, depending on your view on coaching badges (discussed here) you might want avoid certain leagues or make sure you have a high enough coaching badge to start with. 

I also think the overview can come in handy when moving from one league to the next. Let's say you've been in one country for a few years, maybe gained a few coaching badges and are now looking to move to a new country. The league reputation and rank can show realistic leagues to jump to and you can see what coaching license seems to be the minimum to coach in that league. 

Weaknesses and what it is not;
One thing the list does not take into account are managers who've been at a club or in a league for years and gained licenses while there. A manager may hold a Continental A license now, but there's no easy way of knowing what license he had when he was hired in that league. In other words, the 'minimum license to get in' may be lower than what everyone else in the league currently has. 

Secondly, and this is the most important point; the list should in NO WAY keep you from coaching in certain leagues. We never made an official guideline on coaching licenses back in FM15 – and we still haven't – and that's why I say, use the list for whatever you want (or don't use it all) but don't use it if it's gonna keep you from having fun in any bottom division of your choosing. 


I think that's all. Please let me know if anything is wrong or unclear. Also, if you wanna sort the list in any way, just download it and do whatever the hell you want. 

Link to the Spreadsheet
(Save starting date: July 1st, 2016)


RE: FM17 Overview of Bottom Divisions and Coaching Badge Statistics - JP - 06-11-2016

Interesting. I often wonder what qualifications/experience we should select - I think this will offer a good starting point for that.

KUTGW!


RE: FM17 Overview of Bottom Divisions and Coaching Badge Statistics - Wolve - 06-11-2016

Sounds interesting and an excellent bit of information to help pick out some nice starting locations!


RE: FM17 Overview of Bottom Divisions and Coaching Badge Statistics - WilliamMcBeard - 07-11-2016

Keith et al- Could we build this into the frontpage section of the website? Possibly replacing/updating Gazeteers?


RE: FM17 Overview of Bottom Divisions and Coaching Badge Statistics - SackedLlaMa - 07-11-2016

Apparently, I don't play FM17 – I just collect data. So, here's today's project! (I kept it in the same thread as yesterday's project as I don't want to start a new one every time I get an idea for a project, but it can be moved to it's own thread if it's better to separate the two (potential) discussions)

FM17: Can you land a job in top ranked bottom divisions without a coaching license?
After yesterday's spreadsheet published, I decided to start using it for some good. I wanted to see if it was possible to start a new career as unemployed with no coaching license or previous experience and land a job in one of the top ranked bottom divisions in FM17. All the bottom divisions loaded has a reputation of 2.5 stars (highest in FM17) and the least qualified manager had a Continental B License. Basically, can the least qualified candidate land a job among highly qualified managers? 

The Setup:
My manager profile – or test subject – was an Austrian (because Norwegian 2nd division was not among the 2.5 star divisions), without any coaching license and no previous experience. The recommended setup was to have a Continental Pro license and be a former professional footballer at a national level. Basing my experiment on yesterday's spreadsheet, I wanted to test all three main categories; getting a job in my native country, a foreign country on my own continent and a foreign country on a different continent. I chose every bottom division in the game with a 2.5 star reputation which gave me 3 clubs in Europe and 3 in South America. Edit: I had no preferred formation although I'm not sure that makes a difference.

The Divisions

Rank 38: Austria 
# of teams: 10
Tier: 2
Category: Native (which is why I chose to be an Austrian)
Lowest license held by a current manager: Continental A

Rank 47: Netherlands
# of teams: 20
Tier: 2
Category: Foreign, same continent
Manager Nationalities: No non-dutch managers in the league. 
Lowest license held by a current manager: Continental B

Rank 41: Russia
# of teams: 20
Tier: 2
Category: Foreign, same continent
Manager Nationalities: No non-Russian managers in the league. 
Lowest license held by a current manager: Continental A

Rank 9: Peru
# of teams: 16
Tier: 1
Category: Foreign, different continent
Manager Nationalities: No non-South American managers.
Lowest license held by a non-Peruvian manager: Continental A

Rank 10: Argentina
# of teams: 2016 - 23. 2017 - 25
Tier: 2
Category: Foreign, different continent
Manager Nationalities: No non-South American managers. 
Lowest license held by a non-Argentinian manager: Continental A

Rank 11: Brazil
# of teams (per group) - 10
Tier: 3
Category: Foreign, different continent
Manager Nationalities: No non-Brazilian managers in the league. 
Lowest license held by a current manager: Continental A

Starting date: July 1st, 2016
Current End date: December 31st, 2017


My Guidelines: 
- Never use 'Declare interest in job' as it could potentially affect data and the data could potentially be considered tipping
- In media questions I tried to not say anything controversial or anything that could influence my job hunt, opting for 'no comment' when possible/reasonable.
- In job interviews I tried to stay as neutral as possible and to give the same answers every single time. I made no demands of the board; I didn't list anything for the board to judge me on; I accepted the current transfer and wage budget and so on. This was done to keep the data as neutral as possible and relevant for everyone regardless of 'interview' style. 
- Obviously, reject any job offered to me to keep collecting data. 

How I collected data: 
- I applied for each and every bottom division job opening regardless of media prediction or current league position. 
- I collected data for 18 in-game months to get at least 1 full preseason – season – end of season – preseason cycle in each league (due to the combination of summer and winter leagues)
- Instead of just counting the different responses to my application, I instead wrote down a league position. In preseason I used the media prediction for that team; during the season I used their current league position, and at the end of the season I used their final league position. This way it displays the full range of teams I applied to and the quality of the teams that rejected me or offered me a job. 

I separated the response to my applications based on 2 criteria: 
1) The actual response; either Rejected (without interview), Unsuccessful interview (interview but no job offer), and job offers received. 
2) Time period: whether I applied to a certain job in Preseason, during the Regular season or at the End of the season (when you have the final standings but before the table 'resets'). 
- I also used 'Newly promoted' to indicate how many newly promoted teams from that league I applied at, so when it says 'Newly promoted: 1' it means the response from one newly promoted team I applied at. The unique league system in Brazil also gave me some issues so I had to write a bit instead of just giving you numbers... 


You can find the spreadsheet of data here.


Quick Summary:
# of applications sent: 54
# of rejections (no interview): 32
# of unsuccessful interviews: 14
# of job offers: 8

Results:

Austria (10 teams): 
- It took almost all 18 months before I finally received a job offer from an Austrian club, and it was from the team sitting in 10th at the time (but not a newly promoted team). It's important to take into account here that the Austrian Erste division only has 10 teams and they don't change managers often. 
- In the first season there were only 5 job openings; I was interviewed by three (at the time sitting in 7th, 9th and 10th) and rejected without an interview by 2 (at the time sitting in 3rd and 8th). 

Netherlands (20 teams):
- 11 applications sent in season 1 lead to 5 flat-out rejections, 5 job interviews and 1 job offer. 
- The job offer was from the worst team in the league at that point. 
- The 5 clubs I interviewed with all sat in the bottom 5 of the table.
- In season 2 I was offered the job at a newly promoted club in the preseason. I was offered another job during the season. 

Russia (20 teams): 
- Only league with an available team in preseason. Sibir rejected me without even looking at the job application. 
- Russia was more friendly as soon as the season was underway. Of 7 applications sent, only 1 team rejected me without an interview. 4 teams interviewed me but went with a different manager and 2 clubs offered me a job. 
- The highest placed club I interviewed with sat in 13th at the time while the highest placed club that offered me a job sat in 15th. 
- In the 2017 preseason I was interviewed by 4 teams and offered 3 jobs. None of these were newly promoted teams, but two of them were '2' teams (Spartak M-2 and Zenit-2) and it took them months to find someone who would actually sign with them. 
- I was also offered yet another job (after an earlier failed interview) during the 2017 season. 

South America (Peru, Argentina, Brazil):
- As expected, this was the most difficult market to gain entrance to. 
- I sent a total of 27 job applications in 18 months spread across the entire league year. 
- 1 club offered me a job – a newly promoted Brazilian club. 
- 26 teams rejected my application without as much as an interview. 


Thoughts on the results

The Good:
- Even without a coaching license and no previous playing experience, you CAN get a job at the highest ranked bottom divisions in FM17. I was able to get job offers in both my home country and in other countries on my continent. This means that both views on starting coaching licenses and former experience discussed in this FM15 thread are viable alternatives. 
- At the same time, it seems a lot more difficult to get a job with this setup – it took a long time to even get a job interview – which is a good thing as well. It should be a lot more difficult and it should be almost impossible to even get a job interview at a different continent. 

The 'I'm not sure yet':
Realism: I'm not sure where to put this as I see (at least) two sides of the story; 
- Bad; First of all, it's highly unlikely that someone with no playing or managing experience and no coaching licenses should ever be offered a job, especially at a level where all other managers have at least a Continental B license. 
- Good; On the other hand, this is a game and SI have designed it so that you can load any leagues and divisions you want, any license and previous experience you want, and you'll still be able to get a job even if you start unemployed – although it's a lot more difficult than normal, which is a good thing. 
Whether this goes in the 'good' or 'bad' column may depend on further research on other divisions with different reputations.

The Weaknesses of this experiment: 
- First of all, I deliberately only loaded bottom divisions with the exact same reputation because I wanted to make sure that having lower ranked leagues loaded didn't interfere with this experiment. That said, my next experiment is probably going to be pretty much the same as this one, only with divisions with lower reputations loaded as well. 
- Actually trying to nail the interview might increase the success rate and therefore number of job offers. 
- As mentioned above, Austria was not the best choice as my 'Native' for this test as there are only 10 teams in the Austrian Erste division and they don't change managers that often... Also, having just half the teams compared to the Netherlands and Russia makes it difficult to compare the impact of my chosen nationality in the game. For future experiments I think I need to use divisions with an equal or close to equal number of teams. 
- One thing I wish I did but didn't, was take into account the size and reputation of the club's I applied to. Oh well, I'll try to work that in the next time Smile


What's next? 
There are still a lot more to test, but I felt this was the most important test to get done so I did this first. Other experiments I'm thinking of are
1. No license, no experience, but with leagues of different reputations. Goal: to see if you can still be offered a job in a top ranked bottom division when there are lower ranked bottom divisions loaded. 
2. European manager, no license, no experience, with European leagues loaded and lower ranked foreign bottom divisions on different continents loaded. Goal: Can you get a job on a foreign continent if the bottom divisions have a lower reputation than Brazil, Argentina and Peru?
3. Are job offers based on the team's reputation/size/expectations/finances or the league reputation? 
+++

As usual, any feedback, any errors in the data or my method, please let me know!


RE: FM17 Overview of Bottom Divisions and Coaching Badge Statistics - JP - 07-11-2016

Bravo, Ole! That is some excellent analysis.


RE: FM17 Overview of Bottom Divisions and Coaching Badge Statistics - SackedLlaMa - 10-11-2016

Currently testing an Irishman's chance of landing a job in everything from 0.5 to 3 star divisions all over the world, with no license and no experience. As soon as I'm done with Testy McTestface, I'll move on to the next nationality but from a different continent. Wondering if anyone has any 'special request', any nationalities and/or any league setup they want me to test. Also if you're missing anything from the first test, either my write-up or spreadsheet, let me know and I'll see if I can fit it in.


RE: FM17 Overview of Bottom Divisions and Coaching Badge Statistics - JD95 aka Fidsy Jr. - 10-11-2016

(10-11-2016, 07:58 AM)SackedLlaMa Wrote: Currently testing an Irishman's chance of landing a job

Go down to your nearest building site, Ole. /1980s


RE: FM17 Overview of Bottom Divisions and Coaching Badge Statistics - SackedLlaMa - 10-11-2016

FM17: Can you land a job in top ranked bottom divisions without a coaching license? – Part 2
Today: A Wide Range of League Reputations

Introduction
Last time I looked at whether it was possible to land a job in a top ranked (2.5 star reputation) bottom division with no previous experience and no coaching license. Turns out it's possible, at least with only 2.5 star rep divisions loaded. This time I've loaded up leagues ranging from 0.5 stars to 3 and from multiple continents. This time I made an Irish manager (still no experience and no coaching badge) and increased the number of divisions from 6 to 19. The goal is the same (as the MLS is impossible without any license or experience); can you get a job in a 2.5 star reputation league with no coaching badge or previous experience, even when there are lowered ranked leagues loaded? 

About the method
Start and End Date:
Since there was a mix between summer and winter leagues loaded I decided to set the starting date at 01.01.2016 and end date at 01.07.2018. The first 6 months I only applied for jobs at teams starting their preseason/season during the spring of 2016 and didn't touch any other leagues until 01.07.2016. As soon as the summer leagues 'reset' to start the 3rd season, I stopped applying to any jobs there and finished the final few months up to the end date with only the Winter leagues. That way I got 2 full seasons simulated for each league. 

Leagues Loaded: 
I wanted to get a good sample size, so in Europe I picked 2 bottom divisions from each level of reputation, from N.Ireland and Ireland at 0.5 stars to Russia and the Netherlands at 2.5 stars. I also took into account the lowest coaching badge held by a manager currently in each division and tried to find the two leagues at each reputation level with the largest difference. I.e. at rep level 1 I picked Scotland, where the lowest coaching badge held by a current manager is Continental B, and England where there's a manager who doesn't have a coaching badge at all. This was to see if certain divisions had a 'minimum requirement' that differs from other divisions if that makes sense. 

From Asia and South America I picked three leagues ranging from 2.5 to 0.5 and then added Australia, USA and South America. 

Complete list of all divisions selected:

About the Spreadsheet
New columns from last time: 
- 'S/W' = Summer or Winter league (I know Australians are upside down but I listed Australia as a winter league, no offense)
- 'Low. Badge' = Lowest badge held by a current manager in that division at the start of the game
- 'New badge' = Lowest badge held by a manager hired in that division. This wasn't always easy to catch so the badge listed is the lowest I saw (but there could be lower ones I didn't see)

Note: I also changed the numbering from i.e. '2nd' to '2' to save space

I also added a sort of summary to both the previous experiment and this new one. It's on its own sheet and has the same name only with TOTALS at the end. It's just a quick overview where I've counted them all up. 

Spreadsheet: Link to Rep 0.5-3.0 European Manager 

Quick thoughts:
- Absolutely impossible to even get a job interview in the US. 
- I was still able to get a job offer from 2 of the 2.5 star leagues, both on my own continent. In Argentina (the third 2.5 star division) I only got 1 job interview and was flat out rejected 4 times, so different continents seem to make a difference. 
- Among 2 star reputation divisions I was able to get at least one job offer from both Serbia and Portugal, but not South Korea. Again, different continent making a difference? Keep in mind that Portugal have 80 teams in their bottom division and all but the top 2 enter the relegation stage, so they go through a lot of managers. Even though they are a 2 star rep division, I was a bit surprised I wasn't offered a job more often than 3 out of 61... That's much worse than Russia for instance. 
- Bulgaria didn't change managers often and I was not able to get a job offer from there, although it's very possible had I tried to nail the interview. 
- The one and only job offer I got from Australia I received at the very last minute. Job opportunities were rare but getting a job offer 1 out of 6 attempts is pretty good for a country on a different continent. 
- In terms of badges the managers hired in the different divisions held, you don't have to go further down than Portugal at a 2 star rep to find a manager without a Continental badge. Three out of four 2 star rep leagues (Portugal, Colombia and South Korea) hired a manager with 'only' a National badge (A/B). 


Not sure what my next experiment will be – was thinking doing pretty much the same thing but with an Asian or South American manager – but I might have to actually play FM for a little while before I continue   Smile


RE: FM17 Overview of Bottom Divisions and Coaching Badge Statistics - Soulfusion - 10-11-2016

Great research Ole. Would it be worthwhile checking at game start up the minimum recommended coaching badge that the game 'suggests' for each bottom league? As you say some of the AI incumbents might well be a little long in the tooth and trying to rebuild careers that have gone off track.


RE: FM17 Overview of Bottom Divisions and Coaching Badge Statistics - SackedLlaMa - 10-11-2016

(10-11-2016, 08:23 PM)Soulfusion Wrote: Great research Ole. Would it be worthwhile checking at game start up the minimum recommended coaching badge that the game 'suggests' for each bottom league? As you say some of the AI incumbents might well be a little long in the tooth and trying to rebuild careers that have gone off track.

I'll take a look at it. Might be something I can add to the original spreadsheet I posted in the OP.


RE: FM17 Overview of Bottom Divisions and Coaching Badge Statistics - SackedLlaMa - 11-11-2016

(Oh gosh, I wrote an essay again... Sorry!)

Started looking at the minimum recommended license and experience last night by only looking at the club predicted by media to finish last in its division. However, by checking a few other clubs in the same division, I soon realized that 
1) there's not 1 recommendation for each league, but they vary from club to club, and 
2) the recommended license and experience is not based on media prediction alone and I'm still not sure what influence, if any, the media prediction has on the recommendations. 

So, I started including more data, namely Estimated Value and Club Reputation which seems to affect the recommendations. Still there were recommendations I couldn't figure out so today I also included the status of finances (insecure, okay, secure), Stadium capacity and whether the stadium is owned by the club or rented (which I assume affects finances?). Might have to look at other facilities as well... 

A weakness with the spreadsheet I made last night was that I tested Argentina (Winter league) and Brazil (Summer league) in the same database with starting date July 1st, 2016. Today I loaded up two separate databases, one for the summer leagues with start date January 1st, 2016 and one for the winter leagues with start date July 1st, 2016. Somehow that affected the Estimated Value and the minimum recommendations which in both countries changed in a few cases. Not sure if they're gonna have slight changes every time I start a new career, but from now on I'll at least keep two separate databases with different starting dates. 

How to find the minimum recommendations given by the game:
– What to exclude: After a very quick test (which may not be thorough enough) it seems like the license of the manager who's currently at the club does not influence the recommendations given to you by the game. I.e. in the English National League North, the manager at Halifax doesn't have a license, but the game recommends I start with a National A license and no playing experience, while the manager at Stockport has a Continental Pro license but the game recommends I start with a National B license and no playing experience. In Iceland's 1. Deild karla there's one native manager with no license, one with a National B, 6 with a National A, and 2 foreign managers (from the same continent) who holds a National A license and still, the only recommendation I get from the game by selecting any of the clubs is a minimum of Continental A (and no previous experience). 

– What to include: the Media Prediction, Estimated Value, Club Reputation, Finances, Stadium and whether its owned by the club or not, seems to all influence the recommendations to some degree (and there might be more variables I haven't discovered yet). I haven't tested whether or not the minimum recommendation at a certain club changes based on your nationality. I'll see if I can test that later today.

Here's the question I think will dictate the information I need to find and include in the list: What is the list for? 

The issue here is that there is no single recommendation of a minimum license and experience for each bottom division but it varies from club to club depending on the list above. So, before I continue I think its important to figure out exactly what people are looking for. Also important so that I only need to include 1 or 2 recommendations per league and not include every single team in every single bottom division in the game  Wink 

I updated the spreadsheet today with the new and more accurate data. Here's the link. Sheet name: 'Americas Recommended Start'. For now I only have Argentina and Brazil and would like some answers to the question above before I continue Smile 

Note (in case it's not clear); 
- I gave the different licenses and experiences a number from 0 = None / Sunday League Footballer to 7 = Continental Pro / 6 = International Footballer (Global level) just so that it would be easier to see the level (if you haven't memorized the order). Also, if we need to find an average it's easier to calculate with numbers than words... Hmm  
- Club values are in millions of £, so 0,500 is half a million while 1,500 is £1.5M.
- Capacities marked in red means the stadium is owned by a different club. Capacities marked in yellow are rented stadiums. All others are owned by the club itself (at least from what I could understand).


RE: FM17 Overview of Bottom Divisions and Coaching Badge Statistics - Walks - 11-11-2016

Would the recommended licence change based on your nationality? Or did you factor that into your testing?
Is the recommendation consistent for each new game? For example, if you started a new game, chose Halifax and the game recommended you a National A licence, if you then started a completely new game would the same recommendation come each time? I wonder if there is an element of randomness in it.


RE: FM17 Overview of Bottom Divisions and Coaching Badge Statistics - SackedLlaMa - 11-11-2016

(11-11-2016, 12:57 PM)Walks Wrote: Would the recommended licence change based on your nationality? Or did you factor that into your testing?
Is the recommendation consistent for each new game? For example, if you started a new game, chose Halifax and the game recommended you a National A licence, if you then started a completely new game would the same recommendation come each time? I wonder if there is an element of randomness in it.

I haven't factored in nationality yet (will try to do some testing on that later today). I haven't tested the consistency either but I sure hope it's not random in which case it wouldn't be possible to get a clear idea on this... Not to mention the amount of work just having to test that, starting new games over and over...  Twitch


RE: FM17 Overview of Bottom Divisions and Coaching Badge Statistics - Walks - 11-11-2016

(11-11-2016, 01:19 PM)SackedLlaMa Wrote:
(11-11-2016, 12:57 PM)Walks Wrote: Would the recommended licence change based on your nationality? Or did you factor that into your testing?
Is the recommendation consistent for each new game? For example, if you started a new game, chose Halifax and the game recommended you a National A licence, if you then started a completely new game would the same recommendation come each time? I wonder if there is an element of randomness in it.

I haven't factored in nationality yet (will try to do some testing on that later today). I haven't tested the consistency either but I sure hope it's not random in which case it wouldn't be possible to get a clear idea on this... Not to mention the amount of work just having to test that, starting new games over and over...  Twitch

Welcome to the world of software testing! Mrgreen


RE: FM17 Overview of Bottom Divisions and Coaching Badge Statistics - SackedLlaMa - 11-11-2016

(11-11-2016, 02:03 PM)Walks Wrote:
(11-11-2016, 01:19 PM)SackedLlaMa Wrote:
(11-11-2016, 12:57 PM)Walks Wrote: Would the recommended licence change based on your nationality? Or did you factor that into your testing?
Is the recommendation consistent for each new game? For example, if you started a new game, chose Halifax and the game recommended you a National A licence, if you then started a completely new game would the same recommendation come each time? I wonder if there is an element of randomness in it.

I haven't factored in nationality yet (will try to do some testing on that later today). I haven't tested the consistency either but I sure hope it's not random in which case it wouldn't be possible to get a clear idea on this... Not to mention the amount of work just having to test that, starting new games over and over...  Twitch

Welcome to the world of software testing! Mrgreen

Well, if someone wants to pay me to do it, I wouldn't actually mind... I'm wired in a weird way... Blush


RE: FM17 Overview of Bottom Divisions and Coaching Badge Statistics - Walks - 11-11-2016

(11-11-2016, 02:18 PM)SackedLlaMa Wrote:
(11-11-2016, 02:03 PM)Walks Wrote:
(11-11-2016, 01:19 PM)SackedLlaMa Wrote:
(11-11-2016, 12:57 PM)Walks Wrote: Would the recommended licence change based on your nationality? Or did you factor that into your testing?
Is the recommendation consistent for each new game? For example, if you started a new game, chose Halifax and the game recommended you a National A licence, if you then started a completely new game would the same recommendation come each time? I wonder if there is an element of randomness in it.

I haven't factored in nationality yet (will try to do some testing on that later today). I haven't tested the consistency either but I sure hope it's not random in which case it wouldn't be possible to get a clear idea on this... Not to mention the amount of work just having to test that, starting new games over and over...  Twitch

Welcome to the world of software testing! Mrgreen

Well, if someone wants to pay me to do it, I wouldn't actually mind... I'm wired in a weird way... Blush

It's what I get paid to do...


RE: FM17 Overview of Bottom Divisions and Coaching Badge Statistics - SackedLlaMa - 11-11-2016

(11-11-2016, 02:23 PM)Walks Wrote:
(11-11-2016, 02:18 PM)SackedLlaMa Wrote:
(11-11-2016, 02:03 PM)Walks Wrote:
(11-11-2016, 01:19 PM)SackedLlaMa Wrote:
(11-11-2016, 12:57 PM)Walks Wrote: Would the recommended licence change based on your nationality? Or did you factor that into your testing?
Is the recommendation consistent for each new game? For example, if you started a new game, chose Halifax and the game recommended you a National A licence, if you then started a completely new game would the same recommendation come each time? I wonder if there is an element of randomness in it.

I haven't factored in nationality yet (will try to do some testing on that later today). I haven't tested the consistency either but I sure hope it's not random in which case it wouldn't be possible to get a clear idea on this... Not to mention the amount of work just having to test that, starting new games over and over...  Twitch

Welcome to the world of software testing! Mrgreen

Well, if someone wants to pay me to do it, I wouldn't actually mind... I'm wired in a weird way... Blush

It's what I get paid to do...

Mrgreen  Awesome! 

May have to look into that field...  Hmm


RE: FM17 Overview of Bottom Divisions and Coaching Badge Statistics - SackedLlaMa - 12-11-2016

I loaded up the exact same leagues twice and checked the exact same 14 clubs in England (7 from each group) with the exact same manager and got the exact same recommended license and experience. So, for now I'm gonna assume that it's not random until proven otherwise Smile


RE: FM17 Overview of Bottom Divisions and Coaching Badge Statistics - SackedLlaMa - 12-11-2016

Does manager nationality influence the recommended license and past experience the game gives?

I've gone through a sample of clubs from a sample of bottom divisions and looked at the recommended coaching badge and past playing experience for each club when using managers of different nationalities. I started out with 5 European divisions and used a manager profile with a nationality that matched the country I was looking at (Austrian manager in Austria, English manager in England etc). After I had all the recommendations for native managers written down, I moved on to managers with different nationalities, both from the same continent and a different continent and compared the recommended badge and experience for each club. I then did the same for South American divisions + Mexico. 

The clubs and divisions I used 
The manager nationalities I used 

Conclusions:
1. The recommended badge and experience does NOT change depending on manager nationality; 
The recommended license and past experience varied depending on club and division, but stayed exactly the same no matter what nationality I used. 
2. The recommended badge and experience seems to stay exactly the same in each game you start; 
To make sure I was testing it properly, I loaded up a new game with only the South American leagues loaded (the first database had all Winter leagues loaded) and checked every club in the 4 South American divisions a 2nd time, and the recommendations were still exactly the same. I only loaded a new game once, so that's not much of a sample, but since there was no deviation whatsoever I think its okay to assume the recommendations don't change from game to game. 

If anyone wants to double check either point with their own game, here's a link to my data --> Changes in Recommendations (Scroll right if you can't find the South American sheet)


So... what's next?  Mrgreen