Your LLM Inspiration
#1
02-06-2014, 03:46 PM
Some of the off topic discussions in the 'Where Are You Managing' and 'Stupid Questions' thread has got me thinking about some ideas for new thread discussions.

Jaysdailydose' struggles with FM's game changes since FM2007 reminded me of my return to FM with FM2007 and I can assure Jay the jump was much bigger to FM07 from CM93 via a brief interlude with CM00/01. In those CM93 days the internet had hardly started and with no 'support network' you just played the game. I quickly realised I did not want to 'harm' Arsenal's chances of success by replacing then Bung Taking Scots Manager and developed a taste for tackling smaller Div. 2 sides.

Fast forward to 2008 and I had got hold of a computer which would allow me to play FM07 except I didn't know how to! Google, of course being my friend, helped discover a place called FM Britain. I was tempted to flirt with the dark side of FM to begin with. WWFan and his Tactical Theorems were extremely informative to a novice FM gamer. However there was also a section called LLM:B and a forum interested in lower leagues and dedicated to playing the game realistically which I recognised was broadly similar to my own style of play.

The individual tread updates became an essential read and a particular favourite at the time for me was JP's Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde update. In this Save JP had an amazing career of highs and lows, managing successfully in several countries and inspired me to try and achieve something similar in my own Save.

Another equally epic Save thread a little later was The Good Doctor's 'Zen' thread which was truly inspirational providing ideas for additional realism and an essential read for anyone who has struggled unsuccessfully for years.

So what inspired others to LLM?
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#2
02-06-2014, 03:55 PM
The main thing that pushed me towards LLM was I always wanted to try and take a team from the bottom (of the leagues playable and occasionally otherwise) to the very top. I have a keen interest in non league football irl and I guess it just translated into trying to make a shite Conference North/South side succeed.

I guess the biggest inspiration in terms of what I've read online would also be the Zen thread. TGD's works in general have inspired me to try and achieve the same.
(15-02-2018, 10:50 PM)Rodderas Wrote: Maybe this upset the team? Fucked if I know.



[Image: Ln8uvbH.png]
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#3
02-06-2014, 04:36 PM
I started in the other end, JD. I was one of those guys who started out with good clubs, then bought every super talent other people had found and in the end didn't even make my own formations and tactics. Basically I was one of those people I now despise... In the end, after winning everything in every tournament again for the 900th year in a row, I thought "There's gotta be a better way", straight out of a knife informercial at 3 am in the morning. This was back in FM07 and I one day decided to delete every save file, every formation, tactic, training schedule, you name it - everything that wasn't mine - and start over.

Like Soulfusion I too found LLM:B through FM Britain and it was perfect timing as I was really looking for something more realistic. A warm welcome, lots of friendly people and fun career threads later, and I'm still only playing LLM style, with no intention to ever go back to the old ways.
-------------------------------
Currently mismanaging: Newington Youth
Previous saves: 
The Quest for Working Undersoil Heating
What I Learned at the JD Academy

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#4
02-06-2014, 04:59 PM
I would imagine that most of us played the game as it came and with as much help as we could get, when it was available with the advent of the t'internet. However, I wouldn't describe it as the 'dark side' Steve, nor would I 'despise' anyone for playing that way Ole. It's all down to choice. We chose this path because, as you all mentioned, it is more challenging and certainly more interesting. They are probably the key reasons most of us chose LLM (and I too stumbled upon FM Britain LLB).
Trying to build a successful team, Berwick by Berwick
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#5
02-06-2014, 05:21 PM
I think you have misunderstood me a little Ken, the 'dark side' reference was meant to be taken light heartedly. The main point of this thread was to share with others what inspired you to play FM the 'Llama' way.
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#6
02-06-2014, 05:30 PM (This post was last modified: 02-06-2014, 05:30 PM by ken66.)
I didn't misunderstand Steve, I suppose it just reminded me of the type of thing those twunts on another site would say. Wink

And don't call me little Mrgreen
Trying to build a successful team, Berwick by Berwick
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#7
02-06-2014, 05:44 PM (This post was last modified: 02-06-2014, 05:45 PM by jaysdailydose.)
Just wanted to say I am honored that you decided to start a thread based on my off-topicness. Smile

Because of that, I am happily compelled to respond. Smile

I like to take an LLM-type approach to really any sports game I play. Out of the Park Baseball is my other favorite game, and while I generally play several saves - my favorites always have fictional players (so the names don't influence your management) or I am one of the few who will begin a career in the low minor leagues.

Back to FM, I am the rare American (numbers are growing though!) who loves the beautiful game. While I am very knowledgeable for where I'm from - I don't want that knowledge to affect how I would manage... and more with the immense scope of this game, I do it to learn much more about the sport. I also obviously don't feel like its at all fun to just take a Chelsea or a Spurs.. like I'm someone or something!

So after I got the great deal on the game, I did a search mainly looking for a "What's Changed" post or site - and I found http://lowerleaguemanager.com and I have never had more fun with a game since.

---

For the record, I got good and locked into my save yesterday and couldn't be happier now...so thanks to EVERYONE HERE who has greatly enhanced both my appreciation and enjoyment of this amazing franchise.

THANK YOU ALL!
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#8
02-06-2014, 11:25 PM
I really can't remember how I found FM:B. But as soon as I did, I started reading stories, and was hooked.

For me, football management games go back to the Amstrad CPC 464 (Green screen, not posh f*ckers us) and soccer football Double. You got to name your own players, but I tended to make up my own who played for my fictional Redditch Rockets.

When it came to the Amiga versions of CM, I was an ADDICT!!! I had an *ahem* version, and couldn't save, so I would haveto keep the damn thing on for months on end. When the internaional versions came out (Italia and I seem to remember Belgium? Correct me though if I'm wrong) I loved playing as Sampdoria, who were big on C4 at the time (the channel, not the explosive Mrgreen ). I remember playing a 3 person save in Scotland, where we drew lots to get Celtic, Rangers, and the wooden spoon where you could choose any other. My friend drew Aberdeen, and whooooped us for many a season Mrgreen I hated it though, because he simply applied the old rules; same players every save, same tactic, simple end product. I could never quite do the same, I always wanted a story behind my team.

Moving to the PC, it was the main reason I ever got one; the day I convinced my Mom that it would be good for my school work was amazing! Mrgreen I would continually play as LFC, and never quite got there. Even when I occassionaly did, I would never quite 'buzz'. I enjoyed more the ability to look back at what had happened to the waifs and strays I had released. I can still find myself doing this now, for quite substantial chunks of time!

Now that we are amidst the most detailed and difficult (IMO) versions of the game, I have NO desire to reach out and fire up a save with the search option. My friend (he of early 90's Aberdeen fame) still starts EVERY games as MUFC, and loves to get OnceABlueAlwaysABlue....NOT!! to 1000 games. Each to their own.

I know that I had started saves with my lower league favourites before finding this community (Kiddie Harriers, Redditch United, Carlisle) but always with the backdrop of the search screen. For me, for all the nuances we enjoy here, this is the most amazing. Just think; you can SEARCH for any player with the right attributes, price, desire, age, nationality, position etc. etc. to fit what you need. This, in one fell swoop is the nadir of FM in its traditional form.

Add to that the fun I have had with kit making (N.B if any of the newer (or less new!!) LlaMas want kits made, there is a graphics section to this website that at one time was thriving but seems to have died a death now, largely my fault Confused ) and I felt more like I was part of the experience than I ever did before. It immersed me; it did it's job.
100 years from now, it will not matter what kind of car I drove, what kind of house I lived in, how much money I had in my bank account, nor what my clothes looked like; but the world may be a little better because I was important in the life of a child.
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#9
02-06-2014, 11:31 PM
If any newbies want to know where to put their kits I'm sure soulfusion will be more than willing to lend a hand. Wink
(15-02-2018, 10:50 PM)Rodderas Wrote: Maybe this upset the team? Fucked if I know.



[Image: Ln8uvbH.png]
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#10
02-06-2014, 11:36 PM
He knows where they go, he just can't find it Mrgreen
Trying to build a successful team, Berwick by Berwick
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#11
03-06-2014, 02:39 AM
I discovered the LLM way on a little different route than most. I have never approached FM from the direction of wanting to take over big sides. I always started as a minnow. Still I fell into the category of the save and reload, rage quit, I hate you SI mold. Then i transitioned into the epic editor. I quickly discovered that I had more fun editing the database, than I did playing my edited database. What I needed was a way to play the game and actually enjoy it!

That is when I discovered LLM on the SI forum. I just enjoyed reading it. I started to play the game, and learn how to play in the LLM ethos, and thus I learned how to enjoy FM.

I had to take some time off from the game when I started a new job, and when I returned I found this place on Tapatalk. With that tool in hand, I ventured to become a part of this community. Granted I drive my wife nuts with constantly checking my phone for posts here, but I find I nice divergence from my regular day to day.

--------------------
Another way I enjoy connecting to my saves is through Kits myself. Granted I use Smart Shirt for assistance, which I suppose is probably frowned upon by those with more graphic editing talent than I, but I enjoy getting that update about a new jersey sponsor and needing to go in and mock up a few new jerseys. If you all are not anti-smartshirt I wouldn't mind having a go at setting up a revitalization effort in the graphic area of our forum...
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#12
03-06-2014, 08:15 AM
Smart shirt is great, I use it all the time, so feel free to fill your boots!
WAWAW

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#13
03-06-2014, 09:52 AM
I found LLM through SI:LLM which was a natural progression from the fact that my A-League games would always turn quite silly with massively dominant teams bring built on EPL cast offs after starting quite small and humble. Winning seemed too easy when I could find exactly the right player I always needed from the search screen.

Reading peoples exploits at SI:LLM, and later here, inspired me to go down the llama path.

TGD, Kelvin, and a couple of others all had memorable saved that I very much enjoyed.

Currently managing: Kazincbarcika Sports Club, Hungarian Division I
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#14
03-06-2014, 10:00 AM
Earliest memories are on the Amiga version at a friends place, and he had to leave it on for months at a time too!

My story is an evolution to LLM.

At Uni I played CM2 and i think the 97/98 updates. It was here I started to find LLM. I was playing a very non-LLM save as Toon Army and winning everything, when Dover were promoted into the lowest league (was it Div 3 then, now League 2). My neighbour from across the hall was from Dover, we added a manager and he took them from the bottom to the Prem. Again not LLM approach, extensive search function use but I saw he was having way more fun than I was, where i viewed picking up only 2 trophies a season like failure. I can remember really enjoyable saves as Brighton, York and Go Ahead Eagles in Holland. The rest of the time at Uni I wasted on studying, drinking, chasing girls and playing sport.

I then took a break until I think 03/04 came out with Conference North / South teams for the first time and I bought it purely to manage Solihull Borough and had an awesomely enjoyable save. Again using search function, but this was pre-internet at home for me so own tactics etc.

Last year for my flight home to the UK I got FM Handheld and got a little addicted again, but handheld was I felt superficial even versus my memories of CM03/04.

I stumbled over this little corner of the internet, saw the additional guidelines, and thought yeah that's for me!
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#15
03-06-2014, 11:41 PM
I stumbled across the LLM community when I registered on the SI forums to solve a Vista installation issue on FM07, I was never fan of game forums & was ready to leave after solving my problem when I noticed a sub-section with an interesting description that grabbed my attention.

Once I got past the obligatory hazing from Simon I was hooked on the idea that a group existed where people played in a way that almost matched my own style, just goes to show that if getting a piece of shit like Windows Vista can turn out to be a pivotal moment in my life then anything is fucking possible.
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#16
04-06-2014, 02:46 AM
(03-06-2014, 11:41 PM)Barside Wrote: I stumbled across the LLM community when I registered on the SI forums to solve a Vista installation issue on FM07, I was never fan of game forums & was ready to leave after solving my problem when I noticed a sub-section with an interesting description that grabbed my attention.

Once I got past the obligatory hazing from Simon I was hooked on the idea that a group existed where people played in a way that almost matched my own style, just goes to show that if getting a piece of shit like Windows Vista can turn out to be a pivotal moment in my life then anything is fucking possible.

Mrgreen

Currently managing: Kazincbarcika Sports Club, Hungarian Division I
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#17
04-06-2014, 02:05 PM
I've joined FM Britain's forum in 2009, and there I have found the LLM sub-forum and became interested in the idea. My first LLM experiences were connected with playing as Woking and Bodens BK in Sweden, I think it was FM11. For the first time I was able to say that all my results in the FM world were produced by my own efforts, not someone's downloaded tactic, training schedule or list of players. Promotions and relegations started to mean something. LLM is the only way to measure my true ability to play the game in a realistic way.
I understand that the regular players have the temptation to discuss and exchange tips with each other. They simply enjoy it that way, because it's somehow connected with the FM culture and national FM communities and forums.
I am glad the LLM community is growing stronger and attracting new players, who enjoy LLM as much we do.
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#18
04-06-2014, 05:23 PM
Most of the old-timers will already know how I found my way to LLM, but for the newbies...

Check out my slightly stylised version of events, Elrawkum's Odyssey if you haven't seen it already. It's not Homer, but it's got its charms.

In 'normal', my history is I've played football manager games for as long as they've been around - I think Kevin Thoms FM may have been the first published FM game I played, but I remember spending hours (days?) typing in a very basic FM game from some magazine. Didn't work. Tried again, got it working. Was very basic and slow and and bit rubbish all told. Didn't get through a season.

Cut to The Double, which was the first real attempt at the type of deeper FM simulation we're used to now. Loved it, but man was it s l o w. End of season processing took, iirc, 8 hours. Then along came Domark's Championship Manager... Halle-fucking-lujah! At last a game that took it seriously and played at a human, not geologic, pace. Hooked from the word go.

Played as Cardiff City on that version and almost every version up until FM05 (which almost was LLM for most of that time), although I used the search screen freely and on one save even edited myself into the game as a wonderkid with 20s in everything Whistle I was awesome! Wink I also remember using FMScout once or twice, but that was during a period when I was getting a little bored with the game.

Had a great CM4 save (again as Cardiff), with no help, no cheating, no editing, no FMScouting and that kind of reignited my love for the game. Then along came FM05 and nothing - I mean nothing - worked. I thought I was experienced enough at the game to get some kind of consistency going, but nothing I did had the desired/expected effect and I was lost as to how to fix it. The game seemed completely broken to me. But now I had access to the Internet! (I'd had the internet before, mostly at work, but never thought to look at it for advice on games).

I found the SI forum and just started reading around to get some insight into the new game and its engine. Found the T&T forum (training and tactics), had a little rant at the difficulties I was having with the game (blaming the game ofc) and as a result got into a conversation with WWFan. As per the story, we didn't really get into a conversation about tactics, but he basically told me my problem was that thinking in terms of the older engines just wouldn't work on this newer game and to approach it like it was a brand new thing. And that was bizarrely enough. I did that and almost immediately I started seeing a difference. I had far from mastered it, but at least now I could begin to see what the effects of the sliders were, whereas before I just couldn't fathom what did what to where.

Anyway, after a little experimentation I came up with a set of tactics that worked reasonably well and in the style I wanted to play, and out of a kind of sense of gratitude, I opened up my own thread in T&T and made them available for download. They were reasonably popular, though not the most. Then people started coming to my thread asking that I tailor it to their particular team, using my tactics and bragging about their success, offering tactical advice to others based on what I'd done, and so on - and then at one point, again as per the story, a few people started throwing accusations about that I had 'stolen' my tactics from one of the tactical gurus at the SI forum, and at that point I had just about had enough of the place. I was already aware of the LLM forum, and apart from the fact that I was currently the antithesis of what LLM was about, thought that was the way to go. Proved my 'innocence' to the gurus, packed my bags, steeled myself for the inevitable inquisition and introduced myself in the LLM forum. The rest, as they say, is history. Only less inflated.


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#19
04-06-2014, 05:47 PM
Your Odyssey is more understandable than Homers Mrgreen and a fun read. Great job!
-------------------------------
Currently mismanaging: Newington Youth
Previous saves: 
The Quest for Working Undersoil Heating
What I Learned at the JD Academy

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#20
04-06-2014, 07:25 PM
Brummied- you're not from Redditch are you?! :d
100 years from now, it will not matter what kind of car I drove, what kind of house I lived in, how much money I had in my bank account, nor what my clothes looked like; but the world may be a little better because I was important in the life of a child.
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